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I think at this point, there are only two main possibilities

Posted on: August 16, 2025 at 18:16:18 CT
haeffb MU
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1) Capitulate and let Putin have what he wants.
2) Demonstrate to Putin that the US/EU are as committed as he is.

Neither is a great option.
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For those upset at Trump for initiating peace talks with - JeffB MU - 8/16 17:42:54
     Trump should join on the side of Russia - El-ahrairah BAMA - 8/16 19:01:26
     As ummmm always told us, war is the health of the state - Bulldog Bob Brown STL - 8/16 18:41:02
          Where is ummmm ? - Panthera MU - 8/16 19:32:12
               doing way more important $hit (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 21:32:36
          War is the cash cow of the Deep State, but not of the - JeffB MU - 8/16 18:52:30
          it's saddening, really (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:47:29
               You ho-hum and yawn at it, hypocrite(nm) - Seagull MU - 8/17 00:02:21
     Why bother listening when WE ALREADY KNOW - GA Tiger MU - 8/16 18:31:13
          Ukrainians want peace - El-ahrairah BAMA - 8/16 19:04:59
               Oh get real. Why the hell would he want more war?(nm) - GA Tiger MU - 8/17 06:39:04
          What a perfect post to demonstrate WHY we should be listenin - JeffB MU - 8/16 18:50:50
               Your summary is bullshlt. If poot left Ukraine - GA Tiger MU - 8/17 06:43:44
                    You are listening only to the MSM side of the story, GAT. (nm) - JeffB MU - 8/17 13:16:24
          How do you propose Ukraine defeat Russia militarily? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:40:18
     The idiot right below says hell yes to all your questions, - tigertix MU - 8/16 18:25:14
     Support Ukraine, pay no attention to Russian desires(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 17:54:54
          So do you expect Trump to renege on the - Outsider MU - 8/16 18:06:29
               No I expect him to fail and be an embarrassment - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:10:09
                    why do you bail as a child, every time? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:24:10
                         Out of ammo, no ideas, just emotions - Wildcat KSU - 8/16 18:33:20
          Define "support Ukraine" (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 17:57:17
               Also sanction Russia mercilessly and force them into - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:06:59
                    Their assets have already been confiscated & sanctions are - JeffB MU - 8/16 18:27:06
                         Agree, our current administration is a total joke and - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:32:59
                              Your plan of pouring hundreds of billions of borrowed dollar - JeffB MU - 8/16 18:37:50
                                   Ok. Well that is what I would do and support (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:51:20
                                        The plan that is 'a total joke and failure globally' rather - JeffB MU - 8/16 18:54:52
                                             No. Supporting our ally from a hostile invasion - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:57:26
                                                  When and how did Ukraine become "our ally"? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 21:54:26
                                                  Pouring hundreds of billions of borrowed dollars into a - JeffB MU - 8/16 19:16:25
                                                       he doesn't care, won't read this, and will now consider - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 19:30:55
                                                       I do not support succumbing to Russian aggression, sorry(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 19:27:29
                                                            Is Ukraine in NATO? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 19:31:32
                                                                 stay tuned - Fire Marshall Bill MU - 8/16 19:39:06
                                                            Was the US invaded by Russia? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 19:31:19
                                        astonishing (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:53:44
                              so you actually just called the prior admin a total joke and - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:37:50
                              It was Biden's administration that froze the assets, FIJI - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:37:03
                              they are Biden's sanctions, FIJI - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:36:06
               He means “ Support Obama’s coup of the democratically - Spanky KU - 8/16 18:00:25
                    He also means his chicken shyt ass ain't joining up to line - tigertix MU - 8/16 18:26:34
                         To be fair, the vast majority of Americans have no interest - Spanky KU - 8/16 18:54:36
                              You would think that they wouldn't be so warmongerish, but - JeffB MU - 8/16 18:56:22
               Send funds and weapons as appropriated by congress (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 17:58:24
                    What is your plan after Ukraine's military collapses and - JeffB MU - 8/16 17:59:55
                         That would end the war(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:01:09
                              It would end the war with Ukraine in far worse shape than - JeffB MU - 8/16 18:11:15
                                   does to me, and to Ukraine which was the original question(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:15:15
                                        you think the people of Ukraine will prefer to be conquered - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:25:08
                                             They would not prefer either option, no(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:30:10
                                                  child's answer (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:30:34
                                                       I’m an adult. You are thinking of the - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:34:52
                                                            RE: I’m an adult. You are thinking of the - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:38:22
                                                            RE: I’m an adult. You are thinking of the - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:38:12
                                        That is quite the illogical, perhaps even crazy response. - JeffB MU - 8/16 18:24:03
                                             We just have different definitions of an ally - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:29:06
                                                  One of the allies I was speaking of is India. They are quite - JeffB MU - 8/16 18:35:37
                                                       I do not expect countries that are not Ukraine allies to - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:54:03
                                                            Is Ukraine in NATO? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 19:31:48
                                                       He doesn't know, doesn't care, won't read this (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:38:46
                                             FIJI is fine with Zelensky suspending elections and being - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:26:25
                              So, it is important enough of an objective - tman MU - 8/16 18:05:44
                                   That is correct. It’s relatively simple(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:10:56
                                        Then why fund a forgone conclusion, then ends worse - tman MU - 8/16 18:20:33
                                             In this hypothetical we don’t have such a weak cowardly Pres - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:21:49
                                                  Oh, you think it takes a brave man to let 10s of thousand - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:34:46
                                                  An ally to do what? the US is still sending arms to Ukraine. - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:27:21
                                                       I would keep doing that and force Russia into a more - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 19:00:09
                                                            Russia isn't isolated, so "further isolated" is nonsensical - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 19:32:55
                    With no limit in time or expense, fight until Russia - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 17:59:18
                         Correct on the first. No on the second but Ukraine has never - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:02:31
                              what limits has Ukraine put on it's monetary requests? Nothi - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:07:34
                                   If Putin takes all of Ukraine - haeffb MU - 8/16 18:13:30
                                        Not sure you understand what a buffer state is (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:40:53
                                             Buffer from what? - haeffb MU - 8/16 18:46:06
                                                  Do you think that Cuba was going to invade the US in - JeffB MU - 8/16 19:35:18
                                                       Do you feel Russia’s invasion of Ukraine was - haeffb MU - 8/16 20:04:43
                                                            I think you are missing much/most of the story. - JeffB MU - 8/16 20:40:00
                                                                 I don't think he cares. Russia bad. Russia invade peaceful - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 20:45:03
                                                            "Justified" is a loaded word. If it were the US in that sit - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 20:32:16
                                                                 It’s not a silly rhetorical question - haeffb MU - 8/17 04:41:25
                                                                      I think that question is analogous to a question in - JeffB MU - 8/17 13:36:08
                                                       I don't think he understands any of that, doesn't care (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 19:42:06
                                                  No, but I didn't expect NATO to continue expanding - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:53:26
                                                       My view is that invading countries is bad. - haeffb MU - 8/16 19:43:29
                                                            Everyone thinks invading other countries is bad. - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 20:36:25
                                        If they take Ukraine, they would probably keep the 4 eastern - JeffB MU - 8/16 18:16:51
                                             yep (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:27:46
                                             He isn’t just giving it back if he takes the entire country - tman MU - 8/16 18:21:45
                                                  disagree - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:54:01
                                                       Thanks for the link. Good article. (nm) - JeffB MU - 8/16 19:24:20
                                                  I've heard some of the pundits & historians saying that - JeffB MU - 8/16 18:40:34
                                   I’m not Russian nor influenced by Russian propaganda (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:11:58
                                        It doesn't sound like you are influenced by reality. (nm) - JeffB MU - 8/16 18:13:27
                                             The op was seeking non-Russian/MAGA input, unless I’m - FIJItiger MU - 8/16 18:17:47
                                                  I don't think you're influenced by information or rational - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:28:11
     they won't because they can't. They won't artticulate the - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 17:52:19
     If you were President or King - haeffb MU - 8/16 17:52:10
          I'll answer your question. Please answer mine. - JeffB MU - 8/16 17:57:05
               I think at this point, there are only two main possibilities - haeffb MU - 8/16 18:16:18
                    those aren't the only 2 options, thank goodness you're - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 20:45:34
               100% correct and I agree. There would have been - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 17:58:32
          Why can't you answer the question? What would - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 17:53:51
               I don’t know - I wasn’t in that position - haeffb MU - 8/16 18:00:02
                    Hence is question about what you'd do NOW (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:01:31
                         Unconditional surrender - haeffb MU - 8/16 18:04:36
                              how would you recommend doing that if talking to him is - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:09:38
                                   I didn’t say it’s a bad idea. - haeffb MU - 8/16 18:12:09
                                        Why should the US be "committed" and to what length, - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:28:34
                                             To stop the bully from taking our cousin’s lunch money - haeffb MU - 8/16 18:38:34
                                                  So no limit to the expense, time, etc. Just like FIJI, got - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:39:29
                                                       Oh, no, I agree with you. - haeffb MU - 8/16 18:43:24
                                                            at least you have a great reason for your conclusions (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 18:54:23
                                                                 What’s your reason for concluding Putin should be - haeffb MU - 8/16 19:55:10
                                                                      I didn't conclude "Putin should be given Ukraine". I concl - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 20:34:36
                                                                           Is it less bad for future world stability? - haeffb MU - 8/17 04:55:48
     RE: For those upset at Trump for initiating peace talks with - meatiger MU - 8/16 17:49:39
          Attempting to negotiate peace is getting the US in - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 17:54:47
               RE: Attempting to negotiate peace is getting the US in - meatiger MU - 8/16 18:50:22
                    derp (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 8/16 21:33:22
          How is he getting us in deeper? Do you think that sitting - JeffB MU - 8/16 17:54:29
               RE: How is he getting us in deeper? Do you think that sitting - meatiger MU - 8/16 18:51:05
     There is no rational basis to their weird bitterness - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 8/16 17:44:15




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