Welcome Guest

It is apparently a simple matter to resolve in accordance

Posted on: April 23, 2025 at 16:22:56 CT
JeffB MU
Posts:
72394
Member For:
21.45 yrs
Level:
User
M.O.B. Votes:
0
within the bounds of US law & procedures. From the article that BH O'bonga linked to:

"But, more significantly for Abrego Garcia, the statute granting him WOR has a significant exception that now applies to him. Pursuant to 8 U.S.C. Sec. 1231(b)(3)(B)(iv) — WOR is not available to an illegal alien when:

there are reasonable grounds to believe that the alien is a danger to the security of the United States.

The designation of MS-13 as a “terrorist organization” provides the basis for removing Abrego Garcia’s WOR protection — IF he is an MS-13 member. The standard — established by a statute passed by Congress and signed by a prior President — is “reasonable grounds to believe.” It is not “beyond a reasonable doubt” or “preponderance of the evidence.” It is much closer to what is recognized in other contexts as “probable cause” which also turns on a “reasonableness” standard and not a weighing of evidence.

This is underpinned by a basic judicial principle that is not being given enough consideration by those yammering back and forth over this subject — illegal aliens with no right to remain in the United States are not entitled to the same
”due process” rights as citizens EXCEPT in circumstances where they are charged with a crime and the government is seeking to imprison them as punishment for that crime.

Finally, how would this motion to reopen be made to happen? It is a hearing and it must happen before an Immigration Judge who would make the decision.

But NOTHING I have found leads to the conclusion that the hearing requires Abrego Garcia’s in-person appearance in the United States. Under 18 U.S.C. Sec. 1229a(b)(2), immigration hearings may be conducted via video or teleconference.

One exception requiring consent by the alien to a video or teleconference is when the hearing is for the purpose of considering evidence. But, given the proceedings that have already taken place with Abrego Garcia present in Maryland, both grounds for removing his WOR status can be asserted without his in-person appearance back in the United States.

First, as to his membership in MS-13, regardless of the various legalistic claims that the findings during his two bail hearings are not sufficient, such claims are nonsense because the doctrine of “collateral estoppel” applies. It is a legal doctrine that prevents a party from relitigating an issue that was resolved in a previous lawsuit or administrative proceeding, even if the issue relates to a different claim in the new matter. The requirements are only that the issue was part of the final determination in the earlier proceeding, and the issue was raised and decided with both parties having had a chance to present evidence and argument on the issue.

Whether Abrego Garcia was an MS-13 member was squarely before the Immigration Judge and the Bureau of Immigration Appeals. The government presented the evidence of his affiliation and Abrego Garcia denied being a member and offered evidence to the contrary. The fact that Abrego Garcia had the burden of proof in that setting is irrelevant to the question of whether the matter was squarely before the judge, Abrego Garcia contested the issue, and the issue was decided. The decision does not say he was denied bail because he failed to carry his burden of proof that he was not a danger to the community — it says the evidence of his membership in MS-13 established he was a danger to the community:

After considering the information provided by both parties, the Court concluded that no bond was appropriate in this matter. The Court first reasoned that the Respondent failed to meet his burden of demonstrating that his release from custody would not pose a danger to others, as the evidence shows that he is a verified member of MS-13.”

Since “collateral estoppel” is a legal issue and does not require any new evidentiary determination, a hearing to assert his membership in MS-13 as a basis for removal of his WOR status can be conducted by video/teleconference.

But, even if the application of collateral estoppel is disputed, ICE regulations provide that an Immigration Judge may conduct a hearing by video or teleconference to consider or review “credible fear determinations” without the consent of the alien. 8 C.F.R. Sec. 1003.25(c).

Telephonic or video hearings. An Immigration Judge may conduct hearings through video conference to the same extent as he or she may conduct hearings in person. An Immigration Judge may also conduct a hearing through a telephone conference, but an evidentiary hearing on the merits may only be conducted through a telephone conference with the consent of the alien involved … except that credible fear determinations may be reviewed by the Immigration Judge through a telephone conference without the consent of the alien.

If the changed circumstances in El Salvador with respect to Barrio 18 are such that there is no longer a basis for finding a “credible fear of persecution” at the hands of that gang, that issue can be heard and resolved by an Immigration Judge through a telephone conference without Abrego-Garcia’s consent to proceed in that fashion.

So there is a simple solution to fixing the WOR problem that does not require Abrego Garcia being returned to the United States. These proceedings are through the Immigration Court that is part of the Executive Branch, and over which the Article III district courts have been divested of jurisdiction by the Congress. Judge Xinis has no authority to interfere in this process if DOJ chooses to revisit the WOR benefit in this fashion. Abrego Garcia would have a right to appeal the outcome to the Board of Immigration Appeals and then to the Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit. Both could be done on his behalf without his presence in the United States.

The only remaining hurdle is a political one — the Administration seems unwilling to proceed in a manner that could be construed as acknowledging the validity of the Order from Judge Xinis. It seems intent on continuing to contest the legal validity of the order itself, as well as the sufficiency of the the language of the Order following the Supreme Court’s earlier intervention directing her to provide more clear guidance — which she thereafter declined to offer.

I predicted last week when this issue turned volatile that the Administration would fix the error involving Abrego Garcia, but it would not do so in response to a judicial order that it act in any specific manner in correcting the error. This is an Executive error, subject to correction through administrative processes in the Executive branch, and involving a subject matter that is within the exclusive authority of the Executive. It is going to resolve it in that manner without conceding that the Article III district court has any role to play."
Report Message

Please explain why this message is being reported.

REPLY

Handle:
Password:
Subject:

MESSAGE THREAD

     Given how many expenables and collateral damages that.... - JayRoy KC - 4/23 16:49:53
          RE: Given how many expenables and collateral damages that.... - THEGROVE68 MU - 4/23 23:25:42
     No mention that the alleged gang affiliation comes from - TigerMatt STL - 4/23 16:11:05
          The mistake was in claiming he was being deported because - JeffB MU - 4/23 16:45:19
               RE: The mistake: Its a moot point now that Barrio 18 is gone - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 17:12:43
                    Exactly. Thanks for posting this article. It has a lot of - JeffB MU - 4/24 10:58:29
                    RE: The mistake: Its a moot point now that Barrio 18 is gone - THEGROVE68 MU - 4/23 23:27:54
          The MS-13 gang affiliation has already been determined and - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 16:37:34
               A claim by a criminal cop. (nm) - TigerMatt STL - 4/23 16:39:06
                    He was accused of having sex with a hooker & telling her - JeffB MU - 4/23 16:56:33
                         There was no witnesses gang activity. It was an alleged - TigerMatt STL - 4/23 17:59:28
                              There were multiple police witnesses from their gang task - JeffB MU - 4/24 11:03:21
                    This is a red herring, an attempt to distract from the facts - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 16:46:12
          Show us your cards (proof)......or shut up....nm - tigertix MU - 4/23 16:23:10
               Easy… - TigerMatt STL - 4/23 16:38:21
                    RE: Easy… - THEGROVE68 MU - 4/23 23:30:01
                    RE: Easy…: You mean, easy to provide bogus sources. - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 17:15:25
     Funny how the same people crying about the deportation - bcoop199 KC - 4/23 15:22:25
          they don't GAF, bro (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 15:41:52
               Correction.. you DGAF about the law(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 4/23 16:14:32
                    RE: Correction.. you DGAF about the law(nm) - THEGROVE68 MU - 4/23 23:31:28
               Trust me, I know that...once one narrative gets shot down - bcoop199 KC - 4/23 15:57:58
          Such is the nature of TDS inspired selective outrage - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 4/23 15:27:55
     He is a champion poster child for the left - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 4/23 15:11:19
          RE: Most MAGAs seem to miss what bothers some people about this - THEGROVE68 MU - 4/23 23:44:06
          You used to whine about due process. When it was shown that - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 16:41:19
               RE: You used to whine about due process. When it was shown that - sks MU - 4/23 19:22:02
                    Then your judge friends are poor lawyers. They just be ALJs - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 19:50:04
          It is apparently a simple matter to resolve in accordance - JeffB MU - 4/23 16:22:56
               Point is, the district court has no role to play. They lack - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 17:20:28
          If in fact it is deemed the Enemies Act is valid then they a - Logan STL - 4/23 15:41:41
               RE: If in fact it is deemed the Enemies Act is valid then they a - sks MU - 4/23 15:52:16
                    More to the point those courts lacked jurisdiction and never - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 16:44:10
     Almost no one is dancing on the head of a pin - *M* KC - 4/23 14:36:41
          RE: Almost no one is dancing on the head of a pin - THEGROVE68 MU - 4/23 23:50:50
          What was the clerical/administration error? - KCT-BoneTiger MU - 4/23 15:12:27
               They lumped him in with the Tren de Aragua gang under the - JeffB MU - 4/23 16:41:16
               there wasn't one (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 15:38:23
               That DOJ attorney was fired for that incorrect statement (nm) - Spanky KU - 4/23 15:21:51
                    Link to deposition - haeffb MU - 4/23 16:53:46
                    Sorry, it was Robert L. Cerna of ICE, not CBP - haeffb MU - 4/23 16:46:25
                    Fired for an honest statement.-(nm) - TigerMatt STL - 4/23 16:21:20
                    No, the statement was in a deposition by a CBP official (nm) - haeffb MU - 4/23 15:24:11
          They know crap about the 5th Amendment then - Spanky KU - 4/23 14:43:48
               it describes more than rights in criminal court proceedings(nm) - SwampTiger MU - 4/23 15:06:30
                    Not as used by the cretins crying about García’s 5th - Spanky KU - 4/23 15:10:08
                         idk the details of gacia's case - SwampTiger MU - 4/23 15:19:41
                              RE: idk the details of gacia's case - THEGROVE68 MU - 4/23 23:55:10
                         Is he imprisoned? (nm) - haeffb MU - 4/23 15:14:08
                              Not in the US - Spanky KU - 4/23 15:20:13
                                   If the government sends you to a Mexican prison - haeffb MU - 4/23 15:23:42
                                        RE: If the government sends you to a Mexican prison - THEGROVE68 MU - 4/23 23:56:26
                                        He is from El Salvador. He was sent home(nm) - Spanky KU - 4/23 21:58:49
                                        personally, I don't care a whit what happened to him. He - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 15:40:56
                                             I care that the Government follow the law. - haeffb MU - 4/23 16:57:49
                                                  no you don't. you care about gvmt following the law in thi - 90Tiger STL - 4/24 08:23:14
                                                  RE: I care that the Government follow the law. - THEGROVE68 MU - 4/24 00:07:15
                                                  Now that is funny(nm) - DollarSigns MU - 4/23 19:30:38
                                             He had a federal work permit which means he was here legally - TigerMatt STL - 4/23 16:13:19
                              Perhaps in his country of origin. Certainly not in US(nm) - DollarSigns MU - 4/23 15:16:21
               Illegal aliens don't have the same 5th Amdt rights as a - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 14:57:15
                    What if the government is seeking - haeffb MU - 4/23 15:08:20
                         RE: What if the government: Didn't happen and not likely to. - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 16:34:03
                              Disagree, and I hope you and yours don’t get caught - haeffb MU - 4/23 17:04:39
                                   Your disagreement doesn't matter and is as relevant as Judge - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 17:56:56
                                        Your opinion is even less relevant. - haeffb MU - 4/23 18:01:15
                                             Mine is an educated one. Yours isn't - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 19:50:45
                                                  Let’s pretend that’s true. - haeffb MU - 4/23 20:41:57
                    The 5th Amendment “due process” is for cases where a person - Spanky KU - 4/23 15:06:49
                    Correct. Only libtards are incapable of understanding.(nm) - DollarSigns MU - 4/23 15:06:34
               DUE PROCESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 14:44:16
                    Question for you - *M* KC - 4/23 14:50:31
                         yeah, i've changed. nobody likes libertarians and it's - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 15:39:54
                              RE: yeah, i've changed. nobody likes libertarians and it's - THEGROVE68 MU - 4/24 00:12:08
                              Pathetic (nm) - TigerMatt STL - 4/23 16:41:42
          yes, i recall all of the furor over the due process for J6 - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 14:43:30
               RE: yes, i recall all of the furor over the due process for J6 - *M* KC - 4/23 14:45:30
                    held w/o bail, no speedy trials, nobody GAF, you never - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 15:42:40
                    Apparently you don't either. nm - MU Diaspora MU - 4/23 15:04:45
          No prog is doing it for the 5th Amdt. Hatred of Trump is the - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 14:38:57
               Riiiiiight - *M* KC - 4/23 14:42:27
                    RE: Riiiiiight - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 14:43:41
                         RE: Riiiiiight - *M* KC - 4/23 14:46:06
          nah, they are doing it for "not trump". garcia is a terribl - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 14:38:05
               RE: nah, they are doing it for "not trump". garcia is a terribl - *M* KC - 4/23 14:39:11
                    RE: nah, they are doing it for "not trump". garcia is a terribl - THEGROVE68 MU - 4/24 00:14:24
                    nah, he's a terrible example and had the process due - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 14:41:37
                         RE: nah, he's a great example and the only process - *M* KC - 4/23 14:44:04
                              RE: nah, he's a great example and the only process - THEGROVE68 MU - 4/24 00:15:55
                              One might even note that MS-13 wasn’t - haeffb MU - 4/23 14:52:16
                                   is the AEA what was used as the justification for him? (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 15:43:43
                                        My understanding is he was on the first flight - haeffb MU - 4/23 16:52:09
                                   Careful. MAGA doesn’t like - *M* KC - 4/23 14:53:34
     There is a chasm between Can understand and WILL understand - DHighlander NWMSU - 4/23 14:34:55
          If a prog accepts facts, he can not maintain his delusional - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 14:36:42
     Fascinating how much passion this guy generates from people - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 14:29:03
          Fascinating how much passion this guy generates - *M* KC - 4/23 14:34:02
               RE: Fascinating how much passion this guy generates - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 14:38:24
                    RE: Fascinating how much passion this guy generates - *M* KC - 4/23 14:39:46
                         RE: Fascinating how much passion this guy generates - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 14:43:47
                              RE: Fascinating how much passion this guy generates - *M* KC - 4/23 14:46:39
               is that the new talking point(nm) - tman MU - 4/23 14:35:51
                    Yes(nm) - Wildcat KSU - 4/23 14:44:27
                    I Have no idea - *M* KC - 4/23 14:38:14
                         lol, no they haven't - it's like watching revelations happen - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 14:39:14
                              The never trump crowd is pretty good at observing - *M* KC - 4/23 14:40:54
                                   hardly, or he wouldn't be potus again, you stupid fvck (nm) - 90Tiger STL - 4/23 15:47:46
               RE: Fascinating: Note the due process Garcia received. Many - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 14:35:35
          RE: Fascinating how much passion this guy generates from people - BH O'bonga MU - 4/23 14:32:29




©2025 Fanboards L.L.C. — Our Privacy Policy   About Tigerboard