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RE: Then tell us what it means. You won't and can't.(nm)

Posted on: November 7, 2024 at 10:53:30 CT
pickle MU
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Although McClanahan’s review of the Constitution is fairly exhaustive, investigating the debates and intentions behind even relatively inoffensive provisions that generate little heat today, the discriminating reader will be interested in how the author handles the more contentious clauses.

The “general welfare” clause comes under scrutiny first. McClanahan finds no evidence that the broad interpretation one encounters today was part of the stated intention of the Constitution’s supporters, and it is to them, Thomas Jefferson said, that we are to look for proper interpretation.

James Madison, for instance, noted that the Articles of Confederation had included an appeal to the “general welfare,” and no one had taken this to mean the Confederation government had thereby been granted an open-ended authority to legislate on matters other than the ones expressly delegated to it in that document. Moreover, said Madison, a broad interpretation of the clause would have rendered the specific enumeration of powers in Article I, Section 8 nugatory and absurd.

It was Connecticut’s Roger Sherman who moved that the phrase be added, so McClanahan seeks out Sherman’s view of what constituted the general welfare. In June 1787, Sherman said: “The objects of the Union … were few—first, defence against foreign danger; second, against internal disputes and a resort to force; thirdly, treaties with foreign nations; fourthly, regulating foreign commerce, and drawing revenue from it. … All other matters, civil and criminal, would be much better in the hands of the states.”

That, for Sherman, was the “general welfare and common defense.”

Edited by pickle at 10:53:58 on 11/07/24
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     Despite your claims naturalization does include immigration - DHighlander NWMSU - 11/7 10:44:04
          The "countries" are the states, and they do have the right - Seagull MU - 11/7 10:56:13
          no it doesn't (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 10:47:54
     You have no right to ***** here. You didn’t vote - mu4ever DUKE - 11/7 09:35:39
          Thats not in the Constitution is it?(nm) - GA Tiger MU - 11/7 10:49:16
          even Fiji is a better poster than you (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 10:01:19
               oh **** - Wildcat KSU - 11/7 10:12:28
          question: What does voting have to do with the constitutiona - 90Tiger STL - 11/7 09:40:10
               pickle also wasn't *****ing with his post (nm) - kmawv8 KC - 11/7 09:53:39
          what do you think "foregoing" means? (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 09:58:17
               RE: what do you think - MOCO SON MU - 11/7 10:03:29
                    no (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 10:14:38
                         RE: no (nm) - MOCO SON MU - 11/7 10:17:35
                              incorrect, that is not what it means (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 10:48:10
                                   RE: incorrect, that is not what it means (nm) - MOCO SON MU - 11/7 13:29:22
                                   Then tell us what it means. You won't and can't.(nm) - GA Tiger MU - 11/7 10:50:22
                                        RE: Then tell us what it means. You won't and can't.(nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 10:53:30
                                             RE: Then tell us what it means. You won't and can't.(nm) - MOCO SON MU - 11/7 13:42:27
     What does this part mean to you? - BigDave MU - 11/7 09:31:12
          naturalization refers to the process of citizenship - pickle MU - 11/7 09:32:44
               Slaves don’t migrate (link you won’t read) - Spanky KU - 11/7 09:42:26
               Yu can't have naturalization without immigration which - tigertix MU - 11/7 09:35:45
                    that's incorrect (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 09:46:27
                    RE: Yu can't have naturalization without immigration which - Outsider MU - 11/7 09:37:24
                         no it isn't. it's not in the constitution - pickle MU - 11/7 09:47:02
                              Why lie???? - Spanky KU - 11/7 10:29:07
                              Again, take it up with the SCOTUS. They feel differently - Outsider MU - 11/7 09:53:19
                                   again, you're incorrect - pickle MU - 11/7 09:53:51
                                        So the SCOTUS hasn’t ruled on this? (nm) - Outsider MU - 11/7 09:54:35
                                             SCOTUS doesn't have the constitutional authority to "rule" - pickle MU - 11/7 09:55:07
                                                  you really think you're ever going to convince people that - 90Tiger STL - 11/7 10:03:43
                                                       i've not made that argument - pickle MU - 11/7 10:13:00
                                                  And yet they have. (nm) - Outsider MU - 11/7 09:56:05
                                                       yes, government will always seize more power and grow - pickle MU - 11/7 09:56:58
                                                            Whew! Glad we could put that issue to rest. (nm) - Outsider MU - 11/7 09:57:56
                                                                 you're arguing something entirely different - pickle MU - 11/7 09:59:27
                         the same SCOTUS that said the ACA is a tax and is - 90Tiger STL - 11/7 09:41:05
                              They aren’t always right. They are always - haeffb MU - 11/7 09:45:26
                                   and this is where the real issue is, haeff. SCOTUS was NEVE - 90Tiger STL - 11/7 10:05:04
                                   that's incorrect. SCOTUS is not the final authority - pickle MU - 11/7 09:56:35
                              Not at all, just saying they have ruled on this issue many - Outsider MU - 11/7 09:42:35
                                   irrelevant (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 09:57:36
                         I know, just making dill points..............nm - tigertix MU - 11/7 09:39:53
                              Sorry, not telling you, just supporting your - Outsider MU - 11/7 09:41:03
                                   neither of you are correct (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 09:47:21
     And your point is???????????????..nm - tigertix MU - 11/7 09:26:01
          immigration is not a federal, constitutional matter (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 09:27:51
               Article 1 section 8 allows for Congress to regulate foreign - sjbe4d MU - 11/7 10:12:40
                    regulate doesn't mean control or govern - pickle MU - 11/7 10:15:25
                         And it doesn't mean highly efficient in the 2nd amendment - sjbe4d MU - 11/7 10:22:42
                              no, it means highly functioning. - pickle MU - 11/7 10:44:59
                              you just contradicted your previous post (nm) - Seagull MU - 11/7 10:23:29
                                   How so?(nm) - sjbe4d MU - 11/7 10:25:36
                                        you changed the meaning of 'regulate' to fit your - Seagull MU - 11/7 10:36:54
                                             It means controlled in both instances. How can you not see - sjbe4d MU - 11/7 10:38:17
                                                  because it doesn't mean controlled in both instances (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 10:46:54
                                                       OK, well explain then how it means efficient in regards to - sjbe4d MU - 11/7 11:04:37
                                                            i already did (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 11:24:56
                                                                 FFS. I used to consider TB a cut above reddit. - sjbe4d MU - 11/7 11:28:01
                                                                      i already told you it means highly functioning - pickle MU - 11/7 11:30:13
                                                                           Here - sjbe4d MU - 11/7 11:35:07
                                                                                i said highly-functioning - pickle MU - 11/7 11:49:25
                                                                                     "Prevent controls that would prevent commerce from coming - sjbe4d MU - 11/7 11:58:12
                                                                                          oh, lord (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 11:59:37
                         What do you think a regulator on your gas grill does? - sjbe4d MU - 11/7 10:18:52
                              also, immigration has NOT always been controlled - pickle MU - 11/7 10:51:14
                              no, you're wrong. the meaning of the word - pickle MU - 11/7 10:46:11
                              "Immigration into our nation has always been controlled - kmawv8 KC - 11/7 10:23:23
                                   I don't. That's the point. Nobody does. - sjbe4d MU - 11/7 10:25:19
                                        LOL - kmawv8 KC - 11/7 10:39:28
                                             Youre right. Before 1924, the US didn't regulate immigratio - sjbe4d MU - 11/7 11:18:17
                                             this would be amusing if it weren't sad (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 10:47:24
               Government is still responsible to protect our borders from - Logan BAMA - 11/7 09:34:04
                    incorrect. that's an emotion-based "argument" - pickle MU - 11/7 09:34:14
                         Why? No emotion here. - Logan BAMA - 11/7 09:35:16
                              because they aren't foreign enemies - pickle MU - 11/7 09:51:59
                                   Did you miss the part about criminals. (nm) - Logan BAMA - 11/7 10:07:02
                                        "in the form of" - pickle MU - 11/7 10:12:07
                                             I consider criminals from other countries foreign enemies. (nm) - Logan BAMA - 11/7 10:25:42
                                                  right, it's an emotion-based argument (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 10:46:23
               Ok, the states are responsible?????......nm - tigertix MU - 11/7 09:30:59
                    or the people. the 10th amendment: - pickle MU - 11/7 09:34:06
          RE: And your point is???????????????..nm - 90Tiger STL - 11/7 09:26:19
     correct; however - 90Tiger STL - 11/7 09:25:00
          everything begins with education, 90 (nm) - pickle MU - 11/7 09:25:23
               I know, and I'm educated. Hasn't altered anything in my - 90Tiger STL - 11/7 09:26:10
     meh - an EO will cover that. - CulturedDan MU - 11/7 09:24:12




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