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The nature of the universe. God or no god?
Posted on: December 20, 2019 at 18:56:32 CT
JeffB MU
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(This is a split from a discussion with 90Tiger in another thread on another topic: http://tigerboard.com/boards/view.php?message=16656991 )
90Tiger disagrees with my assertion that the alternative to a universe created by God is:
"From my point of view, the idea that there is no god, but that the universe has just always existed and always will continue to exist as some sort of ginormous perpetual motion machine... and that all existence is just a meaningless random rearrangement of matter is the absurd theory."
If there is no God, however, then there can be no beginning to the universe, nor to existence. If "in the beginning" there was "nothing" then that would preclude there ever will be anything, no? Something cannot just create itself out of nothing.
But if things just always existed, then the laws of thermodynamics would say that given enough time heat would migrate to cooler things until we eventually reached a state of equilibrium where everything is the same temperature.
Also, things will tend to slow down over time and eventually stop.
But neither of those things has happened, obviously.
That points to a beginning.
Otherwise, if there was a perpetual past, we would have reached the state of equilibrium and everything would have stopped by now.
Unless there was a perpetual expansion of the universe... until it contracted all into itself, and all of the laws of nature as we know them would be out the window... like dividing by zero... and it all exploded again and started over... as a perpetual motion machine.
But none of this can be measured or explained by the laws of science either. Belief in this requires a "faith" beyond reason and science every bit as much as the belief in a God who created everything out of nothing.
In this godless perpetual motion universe, there is no real meaning to life as I see it, though I am open to suggestions. No matter what people do it all comes to naught soon enough. Nothing anyone does matters in the grand scheme of things.
90Tiger disagrees with my assertion that the alternative to a universe created by God is:
"From my point of view, the idea that there is no god, but that the universe has just always existed and always will continue to exist as some sort of ginormous perpetual motion machine... and that all existence is just a meaningless random rearrangement of matter is the absurd theory."
If there is no God, however, then there can be no beginning to the universe, nor to existence. If "in the beginning" there was "nothing" then that would preclude there ever will be anything, no? Something cannot just create itself out of nothing.
But if things just always existed, then the laws of thermodynamics would say that given enough time heat would migrate to cooler things until we eventually reached a state of equilibrium where everything is the same temperature.
Also, things will tend to slow down over time and eventually stop.
But neither of those things has happened, obviously.
That points to a beginning.
Otherwise, if there was a perpetual past, we would have reached the state of equilibrium and everything would have stopped by now.
Unless there was a perpetual expansion of the universe... until it contracted all into itself, and all of the laws of nature as we know them would be out the window... like dividing by zero... and it all exploded again and started over... as a perpetual motion machine.
But none of this can be measured or explained by the laws of science either. Belief in this requires a "faith" beyond reason and science every bit as much as the belief in a God who created everything out of nothing.
In this godless perpetual motion universe, there is no real meaning to life as I see it, though I am open to suggestions. No matter what people do it all comes to naught soon enough. Nothing anyone does matters in the grand scheme of things.
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The nature of the universe. God or no god? - JeffB MU - 12/20 18:56:32