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I see what you are saying

Posted on: July 21, 2019 at 13:27:42 CT

cnk MU

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M.O.B. Votes:

Let's say I have a beer in front of me. An unconscious thought arises to take a drink of it. I consciously become aware of that thought. I "decide" to not take a drink.

Did I exercise free will? No, because the thought to not take a drink arose from my unconscious mind as well.

Please explain why this message is being reported.

REPLY

MESSAGE THREAD

I can't recommend this book enough - cnk ATL - 7/21 12:53:27

A better book... - DoltfromSTL MU - 7/21 16:13:16

Very annoying habit Toro - raskolnikov MU - 7/21 16:27:28

You have no self-awareness, do you? - DoltfromSTL MU - 7/21 18:30:43

I'm going to have a look at it. - Newcatbirdseat MU - 7/21 14:22:53

Yeah, he has a hard on for religion - cnk ATL - 7/21 14:26:41

"Are you free to choose that which does not occur to you - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 14:44:27

When you discuss cognitive neuroscience to the general - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 14:26:17

Yeah, if you're trying to change someone's mind, which he - Newcatbirdseat MU - 7/21 14:30:54

Video for those who don't read. - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 14:15:16

I don't see why that would obviate free will. One has - GA Tiger MU - 7/21 13:28:06

The thought to not act is still a product of the unconscious - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:30:49

Completely disagree. We may or may not control - DHighlander NWMSU - 7/21 14:12:14

“Refuse to accept it” - meatiger MU - 7/21 14:43:56

We do not all have the same genetic makeup. We do not have - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 14:47:27

But the action or nonaction comes from thoughts prior - cnk ATL - 7/21 14:28:54

What evidence is there of free will and that we are - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 14:17:41

Interesting. If thinking about something is unconscious - GA Tiger MU - 7/21 13:43:51

Also, based on prior conversations - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:51:20

I'm sure it has some interesting points. Though - GA Tiger MU - 7/21 15:16:31

Observe and witness - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:46:15

RE: I can't recommend this book enough - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:07:33

I'll watch that later - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:09:14

Sounds like Sammy wants to justify a guilty conscience - JG A - 7/21 13:00:53

Why do you think that?(nm) - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:07:57

JG pays good money to have - Ferg STL - 7/21 13:17:09

LOL completely false - JG A - 7/21 13:20:38

Over $10,000 for cult counseling - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 7/21 13:18:32

LOL Completely false - JG A - 7/21 13:21:02

According to you, he says he can't control his - JG A - 7/21 13:14:26

I didn't ask the right question - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:17:51

Let him explain how he can control unconscious thought(nm) - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:18:46

Done - JG A - 7/21 13:21:42

Nor can you.(nm) - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:16:44

You can't controlt THAT you have unconscious thoughts - JG A - 7/21 13:19:43

Please tell me how you can control UNCONSCIOUS - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:22:41

I just did - JG A - 7/21 13:25:30

In no way did you.(nm) - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:26:32

OK let me help you out with an example - JG A - 7/21 13:29:04

That is an incorrect conclusion. Your conscious mind - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:37:30

Your conscious mind does not make any choice - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:40:02

Yes.. it is an illusion. But JG seems to have a problem - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:44:19

Its not me having the problem here - JG A - 7/21 13:47:07

You cannot prevent the unconscious thought. You have - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:47:52

You keep saying something I have already agreed to - JG A - 7/21 13:54:53

You are missing the most important part.(nm) - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:57:35

No - JG A - 7/21 14:01:18

That is total nonsense - JG A - 7/21 13:43:58

You do think about choices that are made - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:48:41

Again that makes no sense - JG A - 7/21 13:53:57

All thought arises from unconsciousness - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:58:47

Nonsense - JG A - 7/21 14:02:58

The choices you are aware of are limited by unconscious - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:56:28

Sometimes choices have many more options - JG A - 7/21 13:58:03

Again, you keep reaching conclusions never stated. - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:59:32

LOL what? - JG A - 7/21 14:02:30

People make the right choice frequently - cnk ATL - 7/21 14:04:23

Again you are making false assumptions. If I my fingers off - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:47:09

So if you learn something, you are still not in control - JG A - 7/21 13:56:50

You are not and never will be in control of unconscious - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:58:37

Nonesense - JG A - 7/21 14:04:56

Thanks for taking the time to discuss it - cnk ATL - 7/21 14:07:34

I'm realizing I've used misleading terminology - cnk ATL - 7/21 14:00:45

Right. I am trying to get JG aware that he does not control - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 14:04:22

Agreed, I think making that distinction of what consciousnes - cnk ATL - 7/21 14:06:01

THAT can then be CONTROLLED by conscious thought - JG A - 7/21 13:39:42

No. You cannot control the unconscious thought. Your - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:42:24

I agree with that to an extent - JG A - 7/21 13:45:53

You are talking about conscious thought, that - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:50:02

From learning, intellect, moraltiy, etc - JG A - 7/21 13:59:31

It does not. Your unconscious mind processes information - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 14:02:04

All thought arises from unconsciousness(nm) - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:40:47

OK - I have no problems accepting that - JG A - 7/21 13:42:10

The "you" that you identify with is your concsiouness - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:45:42

The entire basis of law morality and society is that - JG A - 7/21 13:51:22

Thus, the final bullet point - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:52:44

For weaklings and degenerates - JG A - 7/21 14:05:46

How does someone become a weakling or degenerate?(nm) - cnk ATL - 7/21 14:06:41

good question - JG A - 7/21 14:08:11

She's not going to have sex with you, dude. - Newcatbirdseat MU - 7/21 13:35:51

In that last sentence you just captured George perfectly(nm) - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 7/21 13:24:10

LOL damn you are stupid and of course dishonest - JG A - 7/21 13:26:45

Those thoughts occur before you are conscious of them - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:21:17

This seems like the tree falls in the forest question. If - hefeweizen MU

- 7/21 13:26:09

All thought arises from the unconscious - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:29:42

Interesting concept I guess. Not sure I buy it personally.(nm) - hefeweizen MU

- 7/21 13:33:58

If you want to explore it further, I'll loan you the book(nm) - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:35:36

If it can derail my progress thus far I will probably pass(nm) - hefeweizen MU

- 7/21 13:37:22

Fair enough(nm) - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:39:01

I guess you meant something other than what you actually - JG A - 7/21 13:24:55

Let me do a for dummies 101. The unconscious regions - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:31:25

Those choices are not made by the conscious mind though - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:33:39

No, the conscious mind makes the decision - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 7/21 13:36:10

Even 4Tigs understands - JG A - 7/21 14:07:21

MRIs show the brain activity happening prior to you being - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:37:53

Only in the case of masturbation - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 7/21 13:41:08

I see what you are saying - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:27:42

That makes no sense whatsoever - JG A - 7/21 13:30:49

Precisely, free will is an illusion of consciousness(nm) - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:31:24

“Everything that guy just said is bullsh*t” - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 7/21 13:33:56

Complete nonsense - JG A - 7/21 13:33:26

I'm not going to argue with you - cnk ATL - 7/21 13:34:59

It just seems like justifying a guilty conscience - JG A - 7/21 13:40:58

I can control my bowels - 4TigersinMichigan MU - 7/21 13:17:25

Typical cop out excuse from a small mind.(nm) - Emmanuel Goldstein MU - 7/21 13:02:54