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Of course it is. What, pray tell, do you consider the issue

Posted on: October 31, 2018 at 08:35:39 CT
90Tiger STL
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to be, if not this?

Sen. Trumbull further restates the goal of the language: “It is only those persons who come completely within our jurisdiction, who are subject to our laws, that we think of making citizens…” Note that Trumbull does not say temporarily within our jurisdiction, but “completely within our jurisdiction”.

He of course is talking about the laws of naturalization and consent to expatriation by the immigrant in order for him to come completely within the jurisdiction of the United States and its laws, i.e., he cannot be a subject of another nation. Without this full and complete jurisdiction, any foreign government can intervene on behalf of their own citizens while they visit or reside within the United States – just as the United States is known to do on behalf of U.S. citizens within other countries.

Any citizen owe the same quality of allegiance to their nation of origin as does their country’s ambassador or foreign ministers while within the limits of another nation unless they freely decide to renounce their allegiance in accordance to law. In other words, it would be preposterous to consider under the meaning given to “subject to the jurisdiction thereof” that a French subject visiting the United States was not a subject of France, but a complete subject (politically) of the United States while within the limits of the nation without first consenting to expatriation.

The United States has always, as a matter of law, considered new arrivals subjects of the country from which they owed their allegiance. As a matter of law, new arrivals were recognized as bearing the allegiance of the country of their origin, and the only way that could change is through the voluntarily act of expatriation. No more is this evident then with the recording of the certificate of intent to become a citizen of the United States:

James Spratt, a native of Ireland, aged about twenty-six years, bearing allegiance to the king of Great Britain and Ireland, who emigrated from Ireland and arrived in the United States on the 1st of June 1812, and intends to reside within the jurisdiction and under the government of the United States, makes report of himself for naturalization according to the acts of congress in that case made and provided, the 14th of April anno domini 1817, in the clerk’s office of the circuit court of the district of Columbia, for the county of Washington: and on the 14th of May 1817, the said James Spratt personally appeared in open court, and declared on oath, that it is his intention to become a citizen of the United States, and to renounce all allegiance and fidelity to every foreign prince, &c.

Those who were not qualified under naturalization laws of the United States to become citizens of the United States would be unable to renounce their prior allegiances and consent to the full jurisdiction of the United States as needed to become a citizen. This is how children born to Indian’s and Asians were prevented from becoming citizens themselves under the language chosen.

What changed after the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment? Not much really. States adopted laws that excluded either “transient aliens” or those not bona fide residents of the State. New York by 1857 had already a code that read, “All persons born in this state, and resident within it, except the children of transient aliens, and of alien public ministers and consuls, etc.” This code overturned the court ruling in Lynch v. Clarke (1844) where the court was forced to consider the English common law rule in regards to children born of aliens because New York had no laws on the subject at the time.
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     Wasn't that meant to exclude the children of diplomats? - Mormad MU - 10/31 09:29:27
     RE: You lefties who have suddenly embraced the constitution - - playhard NWMSU - 10/31 08:22:06
     We had this debate in 1868 - El-ahrairah BAMA - 10/31 08:17:43
          So GAT would have first hand knowledge of this(nm) - playhard NWMSU - 10/31 08:26:16
               And take notes when I speak.(nm) - GA Tiger MU - 10/31 09:08:24
          the author is incorrect and dishonest. he included - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:21:27
               that's not the issue. - gmmm98 MU - 10/31 08:30:38
                    Of course it is. What, pray tell, do you consider the issue - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:35:39
                         nice wall of irrelevant text(nm) - gmmm98 MU - 10/31 08:53:47
                              It's just the issue surrounding the 14th. If you find it - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:56:38
                                   so you're going to interpret constitutional language - gmmm98 MU - 10/31 09:06:22
                                        Implied? There's written records - Kaw-djer - 10/31 09:13:00
                                             he can't be bothered by reading a useless wall of - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 09:15:51
                                        Uh, what was implied 150 yrs ago IS THE DAMN CONSTITUTION - GA Tiger MU - 10/31 09:10:11
                                             this doesn't even make sense - gmmm98 MU - 10/31 09:14:43
                                                  do you have a position or statement here to make? a - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 09:17:04
                                                       you don't know anything about constitutional construction - gmmm98 MU - 10/31 09:39:32
                                                            and thanks for never offering an argument on the - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 09:51:28
                                                                 there is NO argument, is the thing - gmmm98 MU - 10/31 13:17:15
                                                            Feel better? You may as well have said that into a mirror. (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 09:49:46
                                             sad, isn't it? (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 09:10:34
                                        why have scotus if interpreting meaning of words written - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 09:07:50
                                        What do you think SCOTUS will do? I don't need to - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 09:07:10
               So a newborn in America isn’t a citizen here - El-ahrairah BAMA - 10/31 08:24:01
                    Moreover, do you think that child would NOT be a citizen of - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:39:38
                    1. It means they are a citizen of the country to which thei - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:38:15
                         So a small child who has only ever lived in us where they - El-ahrairah BAMA - 10/31 09:17:17
                              If the parents are citizens of another country, they aren't - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 09:18:24
                                   But they aren’t really citizens - El-ahrairah BAMA - 10/31 10:00:16
                                        what they are or aren't fleeing isn't the question - and its - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 10:15:11
                    The messy lie of citizenship and statism (nm) - Kaw-djer - 10/31 08:25:48
          Same bigoted arguments today - MrBlueSky MU - 10/31 08:20:39
               this issue hasn't anything to do with skin color nor ethnici - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:40:26
                    Lol, it absolutely does. And you're being purposely - MrBlueSky MU - 10/31 08:50:17
                         No, you're projecting upon millions of others the thinking a - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 09:03:03
                         No, like with most things when your side cannot persuade - DHighlander NWMSU - 10/31 08:59:27
                              At the end of every thread, you get this. "no, you're just. - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 09:08:34
               RE: Same bigoted arguments today - None**** MU - 10/31 08:31:57
                    Illegal immigrants can't vote, schmuck. (nm) - MrBlueSky MU - 10/31 08:32:41
                         But their American born children can. Schmuck!(nm) - DHighlander NWMSU - 10/31 08:47:18
                              Well, they would be citizens, right? - MrBlueSky MU - 10/31 08:49:21
                                   What is the right way? You don't need to amend the constitu - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:57:50
                                   Would they? You do realize that is the topic at hand don't - DHighlander NWMSU - 10/31 08:56:57
                         RE: Illegal immigrants can't vote, schmuck. (nm) - None**** MU - 10/31 08:41:18
                              Link? - MrBlueSky MU - 10/31 08:46:17
               You have an extraordinary amount of white guilt that - hokie VT - 10/31 08:31:22
                    Who did I call racist? I said the arguments being made - MrBlueSky MU - 10/31 08:33:55
                         that's a false statement, as none of the arguments made - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:42:22
                              The arguments in 1868 against the 14th amendment - MrBlueSky MU - 10/31 08:45:41
                                   No, MBS, I'm not making any of those arguments, but yet - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:49:54
                         Sorry, I thought your post mentioned Chinamen, mongoloid, - hokie VT - 10/31 08:39:57
               False - although those arguments were held, they were - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:22:23
                    did I say those arguments won out? - MrBlueSky MU - 10/31 08:25:19
                         I'm not of an ilk here, sport. Lumping me with anyone - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:45:00
                         You're the only person on this board making reference to the - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:44:16
          The author is incorrect (nm) - Kaw-djer - 10/31 08:19:21
     5-4 upholding birthright citizenship. Roberts playing role - Emoji Man MSU - 10/31 08:16:30
     Devil's advocate, is a newborn under the jurisdiction of the - TheWildcat STL - 10/31 08:15:37
          No. No one is (nm) - Kaw-djer - 10/31 08:19:42
          yes. If you and your wife are in Spain on vacation and she - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:17:16
               What if a mom was on an extended sexual tourism tour of - Emoji Man MSU - 10/31 08:22:09
                    RE: What if a mom was on an extended sexual tourism tour of - 90Tiger MU - 10/31 08:23:17




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