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That's a good question

Posted on: June 20, 2018 at 10:22:18 CT
ummmm MU
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But here's the difference as I see it: when you talk about the nature of man, you talk about the innate qualities of one given man and how this one given man acts and interacts with other men and with nature.

In looking at humans on this micro level (as well as an internal view of the one given man), we can determine that humans have natural rights to their life, to their property, and to their liberty. That's where human borders stem from, the right of one person to border off his personal property.

Large nation states don't exist with these same premises. Often times the borders are drawn by aggressive warfare or with purchases of the land with money stolen from tax victims. These borders are antithetical to nature, and the aggressive enforcement of these borders against non-violent people are further proof of that.
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If you could set aside your partisanship and slavish devotio - pickle MU - 6/20 09:13:08
     lecturing about slavish devotion, lol (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 10:34:58
     Because sovereign countries have the right to determine - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 09:44:38
          countries don't have rights, but governments, once in - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 10:35:43
          Sovereign countries don't have rights. Only people have - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:02:50
               People can form a country and set borders to exclude - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:18:45
                    You definitely do not believe the former. - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:23:29
                         I'm not against secession per se - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:28:48
                              Which secession is ok and which aren't? - pickle MU - 6/20 10:37:25
                                   I'm not against any really, but there will likely be - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:39:15
                                        So you've recently had a change of heart - pickle MU - 6/20 10:41:06
                              I suppose you support the US colonies secession from the - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:32:37
                                   Yes of course I support it though it isn't a "seccession" - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:36:34
                                        uh - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 10:57:54
                                        Why not? (nm) - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:38:45
                                        It was secession - pickle MU - 6/20 10:38:26
     People do not have the right to enter another territory - Spanky KU - 6/20 09:32:22
          Borders do not exist in nature. - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:04:25
               They absolutely do, they may not be called "borders" - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:20:15
                    Yes, men by nature are territorial. - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:24:02
                         nation states are part of the nature of man - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:29:54
                              that's incorrect (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 10:38:59
                                   well maybe in Pickletopia - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:41:00
                                        clever (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 10:51:03
                              How so? Just because they presently exist? (nm) - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:33:28
                                   not just presently (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 10:36:16
                                        The past thousand years? two thousand years? - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:39:19
                                             200,000 years and basically as soon as man was - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 10:50:49
                                                  Large nation states have not been around for 200,000 years. - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:55:49
                                                       the discussion wasn't just about "large" nation states - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 10:59:30
                                                            native Americans did not have nation states (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 12:43:33
                                                            Every point I've made in this thread is about large nation - ummmm MU - 6/20 11:00:55
                                                                 every post not made by you wasn't referring solely to - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 11:06:48
                                                                      Generally speaking, yes, every post by me in this thread - ummmm MU - 6/20 11:08:05
                                                       he didn't say they were, he said man has been around for 200 - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:57:37
                                                            "not just presently" (nm) - ummmm MU - 6/20 11:01:22
                                                            moreover, i didn't refer to "large" nor did anyone else unti - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 11:01:16
                                                                 I referred to large nation states. That's the reality of - ummmm MU - 6/20 11:04:18
                                                                      today isn't the entirety of man's nature, which is the - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 11:08:23
                                                                           Yes, but the OP and this entire week has been about - ummmm MU - 6/20 11:17:03
                                             Man has banded together since the beginning of time - Spanky KU - 6/20 10:43:13
                                                  And for that matter, large populations of people currently - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:49:44
                                                  Again Spanky, we're talking about large nation-states - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:43:54
                                                       Pickle said we were NOT talking about nation states - Spanky KU - 6/20 11:16:26
                                   we really don't have that great of a sample size - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 6/20 10:34:45
                                        I disagree they are an inevitability, despite their present - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:43:25
               Answered your question.(nm) - tcat UMKC - 6/20 10:11:32
                    Thanks. (nm) - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:12:21
               Borders DO exist in nature - Spanky KU - 6/20 10:10:21
                    Wait, are we talking about nation state borders or borders - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:11:24
                         Sorry.. From my response to the OP: - Spanky KU - 6/20 11:02:37
                              I think that's interesting - ummmm MU - 6/20 11:04:58
                         Quick quistion, If borders are made by people and that exist - tcat UMKC - 6/20 10:15:33
                              No. They do not exist in nature. - pickle MU - 6/20 10:24:18
                                   You are ignorant - Spanky KU - 6/20 11:03:37
                                        They don't. Name one. Show me one (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 12:42:34
                              That's a good question - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:22:18
          Everyone has a right to travel freely - pickle MU - 6/20 09:34:26
               READ! and then address why borders exist in nature - Spanky KU - 6/20 10:01:58
                    borders don't exist in nature (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 10:18:44
                         Then we are done... because you will NOT deal with facts - Spanky KU - 6/20 10:41:59
                              hilarious (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 10:51:51
               We know you didn't, but he did. You don't get to decide - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:37:07
     This is another perfect example - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/20 09:27:23
          a perfect example of what? (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 09:28:21
               Lazy response - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/20 09:28:58
                    I didn't make a response; I started a thread - pickle MU - 6/20 09:31:01
                         It can't be spelled out any more - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/20 09:34:44
                              perhaps it could if you would answer the question - pickle MU - 6/20 09:37:09
                                   I'm answering your questions. - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/20 09:42:37
                                        You didn't and you haven't - pickle MU - 6/20 09:46:38
                                             congratulations, you're now officially worse than JG (nm) - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:51:56
                                             Thanks for not clicking on links to your own posts - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/20 09:51:18
                                                  RE: Thanks for not clicking on links to your own posts - pickle MU - 6/20 09:59:42
                                                       Just wow. - mizzouSECedes STL - 6/20 10:11:26
     Why do you insist we change our minds? Never Yours? - RHAYWORTH MU - 6/20 09:24:52
          If you could present a compelling argument - pickle MU - 6/20 09:30:22
               the fvck you will. your response will be to continue to - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:39:27
               Hilarious! I needed that laugh. - RHAYWORTH MU - 6/20 09:33:12
                    I held neoconservative views not long ago - pickle MU - 6/20 09:42:36
                         Is it necessary to debate the legitimacy of the state in - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:44:57
     Simple - because I live in a Nation, not a free range slab o - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:24:15
          So a few questions: - ummmm MU - 6/20 10:07:45
          Wow, that was really good. And while I realize that a - hokie VT - 6/20 09:31:14
          Well stated. - RHAYWORTH MU - 6/20 09:26:45
     You have no right to travel freely - MIZZOUowns SEC - 6/20 09:22:05
          Everyone has a right to travel freely (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 09:28:48
     They do not have a right to move freely and live where they - tcat UMKC - 6/20 09:21:00
          Everyone has that right (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 09:31:31
               Where is the proof or is that - tcat UMKC - 6/20 09:38:11
                    Do you exist? - pickle MU - 6/20 09:43:22
                         So if I don't know that some people exist, then they don't? - tcat UMKC - 6/20 10:18:12
                              Huh? (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 10:25:18
     my personal overly simplistic opinion - cnk ATL - 6/20 09:18:41
     Ok, I've set it aside. Now what?(nm) - GA Tiger MU - 6/20 09:18:37
     If the US did not have a legal means to citizenship - Sal KC - 6/20 09:15:45
          It isn't just about citizenship. It is also the flow of - TigerMatt STL - 6/20 09:19:13
               Right (nm) - pickle MU - 6/20 09:31:59
                    wrong - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:39:54
               Oh, so all immigrants who come to the US are here for - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:25:51
          But that is using force against someone - pickle MU - 6/20 09:17:52
               People can think beyond the surface and still render - 90Tiger MU - 6/20 09:29:03




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