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One thing about measuring coaching

Posted on: March 7, 2017 at 13:05:06 CT
FIJItiger MU
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Wins/losses don’t measure coaching. They measure success (or lack thereof), which is the result of a formula of which coaching is an input. Along with lots of other factors like roster talent, fan support, resource support, player execution, opponent strength, officiating, etc. All of those things together yield results which are measured in wins and losses or tourney results, etc.

All things being equal coaching can absolutely drive results, its probably the most important single factor. But all things are never equal, all of those other factors always differ greatly between different programs and even different time periods.

Coaching is measured by being able to establish an identity or having a distinct style, adapting to suit your resources, having a sum greater than its parts, level of execution, player development, game planning, dead ball situations, player effort, attention to detail and focus towards the finer points of basketball, certain statistical metrics, etc. You can’t tell if someone is a good coach because they made the sweet sixteen or by looking at their won/loss record. That only tells you if they were successful, which isn’t the same thing.

We need someone who can be successful, absolutely. But we need a good coach first and foremost. Because all of the other inputs into the formula for success won’t be like for like from the situation that past success was derived from, we are just hiring the coach.
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One thing about measuring coaching - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:05:06
     It is true that so many aren't able to evaluate very well - GA Tiger MU - 3/7 13:51:21
     RE: One thing about measuring coaching - Mack's Daddy AU - 3/7 13:36:37
          Easily Greg Marshall.(nm) - Uncle John MU - 3/7 13:42:07
               RE: Easily Greg Marshall.(nm) - Mack's Daddy AU - 3/7 13:44:26
                    Oh not you again. - Uncle John MU - 3/7 13:51:57
                    Setting picks, off the ball movement, the way players - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:46:35
          Bo Ryan was, likely Tony Bennett now (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:37:49
               Bo Ryan. Changing subjects slightly, while I did not - MUTGR MU - 3/7 13:43:27
                    Saw that round table and it was awesome. I really wish he - Uncle John MU - 3/7 13:59:04
                         RE: Saw that round table and it was awesome. I really wish he - MUTGR MU - 3/7 14:12:29
                    Agreed. He is about as opposite of Kim as possible(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:44:45
          My pick would be Izzo (nm) - TheWildcat STL - 3/7 13:37:09
     Since you appear to treat recruiting separate from - MUTGR MU - 3/7 13:20:12
          Recruiting is the biggest factor by a wide margin. No coach - sprintcar STL - 3/7 13:27:31
               RE: Recruiting is the biggest factor by a wide margin. No coach - Grizzly999 MU - 3/7 13:43:32
               RE: Recruiting is the biggest factor by a wide margin. No coach - MUTGR MU - 3/7 13:30:53
          I feel recruiting is predominantly done by assistants - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:25:40
               I should also add - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:30:36
               TONY HARVEY (nm) - TheWildcat STL - 3/7 13:27:29
                    Right, he brought in alot of talent to MU (nm) - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:27:51
     Too long did not read - Doc James USA - 3/7 13:18:48
          Of course, they wanted KA to get another year. - ERB KC - 3/7 14:37:10
          I believe what you meant to say, Kim is a nice guy, nm - MU-TULSA MU - 3/7 13:48:25
          No, he is without a doubt not a good coach - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:19:37
               Not a good D1 coach. He was a very good D2 coach.(nm) - tgr MU - 3/7 13:30:08
                    I don't know, I only saw him coach 2 games there - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:32:01
                         His wins/losses at CMSU indicates that he was a good D2 - Lt. J. Dangle NWMSU - 3/7 13:34:16
                              Hmmmm, its almost like the original post was - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:37:15
                                   We also have a larger body of work to prove that he was a - Lt. J. Dangle NWMSU - 3/7 13:40:30
                                        Really, how many games of CMSU's did you watch? - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:42:54
                                             Are you really trying to say that KA was not a good D2 - Lt. J. Dangle NWMSU - 3/7 13:45:50
                                                  I'm saying he is not a good coach. I observed it firsthand - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:48:24
                                                       No he wasn't mailing it in. He didn't get the talent he - Lt. J. Dangle NWMSU - 3/7 13:55:47
                                                            He didn't fail exclusively because of a lack of talent - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 14:01:15
                                                                 No matter the roster? Disagree with that. But I never - Lt. J. Dangle NWMSU - 3/7 14:04:15
                                                       He had better talent then the competition. (nm) - TheWildcat STL - 3/7 13:50:38
                                                            He did? (nm) - Lt. J. Dangle NWMSU - 3/7 14:01:36
                                                            That is my current assumption, and the level of opposing - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:51:06
               foolish statement - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 3/7 13:27:42
                    RE: foolish statement - TheWildcat STL - 3/7 13:28:39
                         always darkest before the dawn - Ragnar Danneskjold MU - 3/7 13:30:57
                              hahahahahha. Obviously Sterk who is much more qualified - TheWildcat STL - 3/7 13:31:24
                         RE: foolish statement - TheWildcat STL - 3/7 13:29:02
                              RE: foolish statement - TheWildcat STL - 3/7 13:29:24
               He did win a national championship as a coach (nm) - Lt. J. Dangle NWMSU - 3/7 13:24:14
                    Agreed, good supporting example for my initial point(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:27:24
               Whose qualifications are better, yours or Calipari?(nm) - Doc James USA - 3/7 13:21:52
                    Can you find me an example of a coach saying another one - tgr MU - 3/7 13:26:28
                         Danny Nee - Doc James USA - 3/7 13:31:44
                              Did he say that to the media? I thought it was to some fans - tgr MU - 3/7 13:42:05
                    Whose qualifications are better? You or Sterk? (nm) - TheWildcat STL - 3/7 13:23:43
                         Whose qualifications are better? You or Salty Dog? (nm) - Johnny Utah MU - 3/7 13:26:22
                              Me quite obviously. (nm) - TheWildcat STL - 3/7 13:26:44
     Agree, and that's why we need Brian Gregory - Johnny Utah MU - 3/7 13:16:52
          No idea, I am completely unfamiliar with his coaching(nm) - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:18:06
               I just told you all you need to know - Johnny Utah MU - 3/7 13:20:41
                    Wins and losses matter very much. They measure success - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:26:58
     RE: One thing about measuring coaching - Fire Marshall Bill MU - 3/7 13:07:06
          The 2nd paragraph I was completely correct about - FIJItiger MU - 3/7 13:08:57
     that's a lot of words to say Crean can't coach (nm) - lqf2b8 MU - 3/7 13:06:25




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